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 Post subject: Re: August meet
PostPosted: July 30th, 2017, 8:31 pm 
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Joined: July 17th, 2016, 6:24 am
Posts: 1108
Grover Gardner wrote:
For those who are interested in trying a reasonably easy and fool-proof MPD player, I found a guide that actually wasn't too grueling and worked perfectly:

https://www.24bit96.com/usb-computer-au ... d-mpd.html

It's a few years old but I used the latest Debian Net installer and rt kernel without a problem. I opted to install SSH from the installer, then when the base install was done I logged in from a laptop with an SSH client and the instructions side by side. That way I was able to copy-and-paste the commands and conf file additions without doing a tone of typing. (You can paste in the terminal with a right-click. And "nano" is the default text editor.)

Usb-mount appears to be obsolete and I couldn't immediately figure out a replacement, but I didn't bother about it anyway. I also skipped the static ip stuff to deal with later, relying on A DHCP connection and a reserved address on my router.

I used his computer name (debianmusic) and user name (usbaudio) to make copy and paste easier. When it came to editing mpd.conf I used the installed version and just tracked his specified settings.

It sounds very good. It's open, spacious and *very* clean. I installed it on a little Azulle Byte Plus, a cute little $175 fanless mini-PC I got on Amazon. I mount the Azulle from my Mac Mini entertainment computer with smb, throw some albums into the "music" folder and fire up Theremin to play the music. It also works well with an MPD client on a pad. This is the first time that I *didn't* spend three days trying to get MPD to work--and failed. :-)

If anyone wants to try it feel free to ask for help. This is perfect for me because I don't want my WHOLE collection loaded, just some select listening for the evening. It's also nice because there are no network hitches with hi-res files, since it reads right from the main drive. And I checked--the output is bit perfect. Overall it was a pretty painless way to get familier with the elements of a basic MPD server and learn a little Linux stuff!


How does it compare to snakeoil and AP-Linux?


Last edited by Cogito on July 31st, 2017, 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: August meet
PostPosted: July 31st, 2017, 12:59 am 
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Joined: June 4th, 2013, 2:39 pm
Posts: 488
It's a little hard to say because I have two different mini-PCs I bought to experiment with and they're both finicky about what distros they'll boot and what they won't, so I can't always do a direct comparison. The Azulle is a nicely-made little gadget with an Atom Z8300 cpu, and the XCY is an older Celeron Bay Trail. I bought the XCY because it appears to be the same thing Small Green Computer was marketing as an audio server for three times the price. The Azulle won't boot AP-Linux. But I did compare this Debian MPD with Daphile on the Azulle, and the results are far less colored.

If I had to take a stab at it, I'd say Snakeoil is a pretty nice distro. But he hasn't solved the UEFI 32-bit boot problem, which disqualifies it for a lot of little machines. Daphile, OTOH, will boot and install on just about anything. I tried AP-Linux on the XCY and I'm going to reserve judgement because it's just not as good a build as the Azulle.

Soon I hope to buy a fanless NUC with a solid Intel processor and a more tuneable BIOS. I *will* say that I'm pretty convinced that less-is-more when it comes to an audio server. And I am inclined to agree with a lot of computer audiophiles that minimal Linux is the better OS for audio.


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 Post subject: Re: August meet
PostPosted: July 31st, 2017, 8:05 am 
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Joined: July 8th, 2016, 4:34 pm
Posts: 571
If you are building you own computer (these are htpc builds) and you want it to look good look at -

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comme ... m_instead/


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 Post subject: Re: August meet
PostPosted: July 31st, 2017, 10:04 am 
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Joined: February 28th, 2013, 3:31 pm
Posts: 364
Maybe Roscoe can move the computer discussion to it's own thread, and keep this one about the meet?

I'm not a software person, but I have experimented with computer audio. If you're going to use a computer based server outputing USB, you need an SOTM USB card and a linear power supply (or battery) to SEPARATELY power the mother board and USB board. Then you can experiment with software. Until then, in my experience, you're listening to hash.

Perhaps Charlie will chime in on his set up if he sees this thread. I believe he is running his computer server (with the SOTM card) as a DLNA renderer running Linux, and serving from his NAS with MinimServer via BubbleUpnp. Sounds awesome in his system. When I demoed it on my system (102db speakers) it was a little noisy, but otherwise very good. I serve music the same way from my NAS to a renderer, and when I unplugged it and plugged Charlie's computer into my network, it was recognized and immediately played.

The GUI is basic but functional. It's not a Roon endpoint, but I haven't heard anybody express interest in that.


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 Post subject: Re: August meet
PostPosted: July 31st, 2017, 12:03 pm 
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Joined: June 4th, 2013, 2:39 pm
Posts: 488
Jim G wrote:
Maybe Roscoe can move the computer discussion to it's own thread, and keep this one about the meet?

I'm not a software person, but I have experimented with computer audio. If you're going to use a computer based server outputing USB, you need an SOTM USB card and a linear power supply (or battery) to SEPARATELY power the mother board and USB board. Then you can experiment with software. Until then, in my experience, you're listening to hash.

Perhaps Charlie will chime in on his set up if he sees this thread. I believe he is running his computer server (with the SOTM card) as a DLNA renderer running Linux, and serving from his NAS with MinimServer via BubbleUpnp. Sounds awesome in his system. When I demoed it on my system (102db speakers) it was a little noisy, but otherwise very good. I serve music the same way from my NAS to a renderer, and when I unplugged it and plugged Charlie's computer into my network, it was recognized and immediately played.

The GUI is basic but functional. It's not a Roon endpoint, but I haven't heard anybody express interest in that.


I agree, Jim. I probably should be looking at one of the custom-built servers before spending any more money. And yes, we should probably move this discussion to a new thread.


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PostPosted: July 31st, 2017, 12:04 pm 
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I'll start again here. So Jim, what are you using for a server in your highly efficient system?


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 Post subject: Re: August meet
PostPosted: July 31st, 2017, 12:27 pm 
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Posts: 1108
Jim G wrote:
Maybe Roscoe can move the computer discussion to it's own thread, and keep this one about the meet?

I'm not a software person, but I have experimented with computer audio. If you're going to use a computer based server outputing USB, you need an SOTM USB card and a linear power supply (or battery) to SEPARATELY power the mother board and USB board. Then you can experiment with software. Until then, in my experience, you're listening to hash.


I came across SOTM on AP-LInux website. I really don't understand how SOTM works or under what conditions it improves the audio.

Their claim about noisy power supply from the motherboard is very valid, but it applies only to those DACs which are powered by USB power. The need for a quality clock incontravertible.

However, their claim that providing clean linear power supply USB controller improves audio for all DACs seems to be little over the top. USB works strictly in digital domain. In the digital domain, neither the noise in the power supply or ripples do not really matter as there is a huge range of voltages are used to represent 0 and 1.

For example, motherboard is supplied 5v, and any voltage less than 2.6 is considered 0 and above is considered 1. Its almost impossible under normal working considerations for the voltage to drop from 5v to less than 2.6v for the 1 bit to flip to 0.

I would love to audition SOTM sometime.


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PostPosted: July 31st, 2017, 1:49 pm 
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Grover Gardner wrote:
I'll start again here. So Jim, what are you using for a server in your highly efficient system?

I've been using a DLNA renderer (Sonore) servered from my NAS as described above, and as Charlie does. Lower noise floor and more dynamic range than coming off a PC.

However, my system (speakers/amps) can't reproduce a reasonable 3 dimensional soundstage, rather it's 2 dimensional. It has depth and width, but not the 3rd dimension of complete transparency with instruments layered.

Charlie's system has the ability to be very 3 dimensional. I heard it with his analogue set up when we 1st met, but his digital rig didn't do it at that time. Now, his digital is as good or better than the analogue.

Because we both serve music from our NAS the same way, and are using DLNA devices, we can drop mine in his system or vice versa easily. Put mine in his system it becomes 2 dimensional. Put his in my system, it stays 2 dimensional. Put his in his system without the LPS, it becomes 2 dimensional. Hope that makes sense.

I recognize these kinds of observations are annoying. I'm sure there's nothing to be measured that can explain it. Most of us probably don't have systems capable of exposing the difference, but if you do, his server/renderer is a good model to follow and not crazy expensive.


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 Post subject: Re: August meet
PostPosted: July 31st, 2017, 1:57 pm 
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Posts: 953
Cogito wrote:
Jim G wrote:
Maybe Roscoe can move the computer discussion to it's own thread, and keep this one about the meet?

I'm not a software person, but I have experimented with computer audio. If you're going to use a computer based server outputing USB, you need an SOTM USB card and a linear power supply (or battery) to SEPARATELY power the mother board and USB board. Then you can experiment with software. Until then, in my experience, you're listening to hash.


I came across SOTM on AP-LInux website. I really don't understand how SOTM works or under what conditions it improves the audio.

Their claim about noisy power supply from the motherboard is very valid, but it applies only to those DACs which are powered by USB power. The need for a quality clock incontravertible.

However, their claim that providing clean linear power supply USB controller improves audio for all DACs seems to be little over the top. USB works strictly in digital domain. In the digital domain, neither the noise in the power supply or ripples do not really matter as there is a huge range of voltages are used to represent 0 and 1.

For example, motherboard is supplied 5v, and any voltage less than 2.6 is considered 0 and above is considered 1. Its almost impossible under normal working considerations for the voltage to drop from 5v to less than 2.6v for the 1 bit to flip to 0.

I would love to audition SOTM sometime.


There are people in this club who can HEAR and whose systems are AMAZING! That they share their knowledge and experience, saving us from re-doing their research is a very, very kind gift. Jim G. and Charlie are two of those people.

We can learn from them. But some will argue that power cords, USB cables, even capacitors don't make any difference. So maybe they are wasting their time.


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PostPosted: July 31st, 2017, 2:20 pm 
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Joined: July 17th, 2016, 6:24 am
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Stuart,

You left out key part of my post.

Quote:
I really don't understand how SOTM works or under what conditions it improves the audio.


For the sake of clarification, I am not a naysayer. I dont believe in DBTs.

In my experience, there is no holy grail in audio. A gizmo that sounds wonderful in one system might not be so good in the other. Jim said above he found the Charlies SOTM noisy in his setup.

Its all about synergy of the components.

Having said all that, whats wrong in trying to understand the technology? What wrong in knowledge seeking?


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