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 Post subject: 10 pounds of copper
PostPosted: April 9th, 2022, 10:52 am 
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Joined: January 15th, 2015, 7:19 am
Posts: 1704
Location: Baltimore MD
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almost $200 from Solen 14ga around 5.6mf .6ohmDCR and 2.2mh
14ga mod to crossover in my RAZZ


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 Post subject: Re: 10 pounds of copper
PostPosted: April 9th, 2022, 11:50 am 
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Joined: February 28th, 2013, 3:31 pm
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Is that for all your heavy metal music? :crazy:


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 Post subject: Re: 10 pounds of copper
PostPosted: April 9th, 2022, 11:55 am 
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Joined: January 15th, 2015, 7:19 am
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Location: Baltimore MD
only for the harpsichord


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 Post subject: Re: 10 pounds of copper
PostPosted: April 9th, 2022, 12:27 pm 
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Joined: February 28th, 2013, 1:19 pm
Posts: 926
One think to consider when putting the money into low DCR crossover coils is whether the original coil resistance is part of the actual crossover design. Sometimes, one may want to use a higher DCR coil if the network needs a bit of resistance. It does not make much sense from an engineering perspective to use a very low DCR coil where there is a resistor in series with the coil, for instance. Also, it may slightly influence the network response if the value of other components were selected based the higher DCR of the original coil and now you are using a lower DCR coil. To keep the same response, you may need to add a resistor (or increase the value of a existing resistor) to restore the original design response. But I expect the influence, in most case, will be minor.

On the Joe Rasmussen Elsinore speaker design, which I built, this was definitely a factor in selection of crossover chokes. At a couple instances in the network, a higher DCR coil was used with a series resistor to provide a specific impedance at that location for the desired response. No reason to go crazy on an expensive low DCR coil.

If you have already taken this into account, then please ignore me. And, it could be the lower DCR means better performance (less resistive power loss), say with a coil in series with a woofer, for instance. Just a few things to be aware of.

David


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 Post subject: Re: 10 pounds of copper
PostPosted: April 9th, 2022, 2:08 pm 
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Joined: January 15th, 2015, 7:19 am
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Location: Baltimore MD
The original iron core inductors have very similarly low DCR. They were 14ga also.


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 Post subject: Re: 10 pounds of copper
PostPosted: April 9th, 2022, 2:44 pm 
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Actually, iron core inductors using the same gauge wire should have an even lower DCR than an air core with the same size wire, due to the lower number of turns and reduced wire length. The typically problem with iron core inductors are saturation at high current. Frankly, for a very high efficiency speaker like your Voiti RAZZ, I would not expect there would be enough current through the coil for it even to be an issue. But this is just my rational (engineering) observation, but I don't mean to be a wet blanket. So much about audio are the little things that shouldn't make a difference rationally, but do upon listening. Enjoy the upgrade!

David


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 Post subject: Re: 10 pounds of copper
PostPosted: April 9th, 2022, 3:13 pm 
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Joined: July 24th, 2015, 4:17 pm
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Location: Parkville, Maryland
Actually my experience and that of Wilson Audio has been that the best results are obtained from laminated-core inductors. :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: 10 pounds of copper
PostPosted: April 9th, 2022, 3:21 pm 
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Joined: February 28th, 2013, 3:31 pm
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I have used the Erse laminated core coils with great success.

https://www.erseaudio.com/Products/IQCoils

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: 10 pounds of copper
PostPosted: April 9th, 2022, 3:44 pm 
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Joined: January 15th, 2015, 7:19 am
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Location: Baltimore MD
I wanted to go to Ersa because they are much lower cost than Solen. The values I needed were back-ordered with no date of availability available.
I pulled a few strings to get the Solens at resellers' cost which was still more than the Ersa.

I know that conventional thinking is that one can get away with iron core inductors for the bass. But what I heard was a very significant gain is speed. Before the bass was a bit thick. Now it's quick like a bunny.

I find it interesting that most people (including me) do not enjoy the sound of Wilsons yet here you are using them to bang on my head.

These changes were based on what I observed in listening to both versions side by side in two different system locations. I have to be a bit vague because some of this stuff is information the designer does not make too public.
I just wanted to show off a cool picture. I should have kept my mouth shut. I suppose you guys think I faked the picture too. Your egos and one-up-man-ship continuously fascinate and amaze me.


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 Post subject: Re: 10 pounds of copper
PostPosted: April 9th, 2022, 4:47 pm 
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Joined: February 28th, 2013, 1:19 pm
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Paul,

Sorry about my contribution. I know, it is frustrating when someone comes in and tells you afterwards you did it the wrong way when it works just fine. Since these were tested side by side with the stock crossover and are audibly better, then that settles it. Ears over mind!

It is a great photo. The lighting and composition of the inductors is superb! Great that they sound as good as the picture!

David


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