August 27th, 2021, 9:51 am
Pelliott321 wrote:Amazingly flat response
When I heard them back in the spring I could easily tell the speakers had a wide rang
There no screaming meanies.
Quite an accomplishment
August 27th, 2021, 11:38 am
August 27th, 2021, 1:26 pm
dkalsi wrote:Pelliott321 wrote:Amazingly flat response
When I heard them back in the spring I could easily tell the speakers had a wide rang
There no screaming meanies.
Quite an accomplishment
Hi Pelliott,
I would advise that you take these measurements with a grain of salt. The measurements were taken indoors with little over 3.0ms gate time - so, again, limited resolution. It would be great if we can take these outside and prop them up on 12' ladder and take a couple of measurements that way - just to verify the above-provideded measurements.
Also - the above measurements were based on the new suggested passive crossover. What you may have heard in the spring had a different tonality. But in any case - yes - these do have rather wide horizontal dispersion, and certainly not bad vertical dispersion (- we are pretty good to +/-15degrees almost).
The tweeters naturally have an ever so slight rising response - and that is partially why a sightly off-axis (e.g., 10 or 20 degrees) listening axis was suggested (in other words - no toe-in). When listed slightly off-axis - the speakers are +/- 1.5db. Even on-axis, the rising response is not objectionable at all, because the ribbon just has this awesome clarity to it.
I would be curious to know your thoughts after a second listen (with the new crossover).
August 27th, 2021, 10:33 pm
Pelliott321 wrote:When I heard them in the spring David played them both with passive and active crossover. I preferred the passive being more musical, lees hifi.
August 27th, 2021, 11:00 pm
Cogito wrote:Did you measure this in your place or Dave's?
Is any DSP like room correction in effect when measuring?
DSP is not necessarily bad, but from measurement perspective, if it is in effect you measured the music system as unit, not just the speakers.
August 28th, 2021, 11:02 am
dkalsi wrote:
This was at my place; however, since the measurements are gated, room interferences have been removed.
No DSP
I suggested to David to have a listening party with fellow forum members while employing the new crossover, which has been voiced to provide a more neutral presentation. People can then provide suggestions if they feel certain frequency bands need to be EQ'd (boosted/attenuated). The speaker should respond well to EQ (note the even spacing in the provided polar response), with the exception of a narrow range that is impacted by diffraction issues (2Kz - 3.5Khz).
After the group is in agreement, we can then modify the passive crossover to similar tonality (*noting there is a limitation to how far you can go with passive).
Who knows, we may end up far from flat response, and that's perfectly fine. Common as it may be, it's not a hard and fast rule that every person must prefer a flat speaker.
In fact - it took me some time to adjust to more neutral speakers. For the longest time I enjoyed more colored speakers (e.g., Klipsch, etc.) - and still do from time to time. Giving neutral speakers a chance is something new to me, and I'm enjoying it.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe David plans to employ a bass cabinet below a certain frequency, incorporated with an active crossover. I would suggest he voice the passive crossover in the top cabinet to provide a neutral response, and then employ active EQ to taste.
I think they sound really nice. I never heard them with the original crossover, only took sine sweeps, but I did get a chance to listen to the new crossover for a short time and liked what I was hearing. The woofers blend really well with the ribbon - even as you walk up to the speaker - you can tell there is nice integration between the components (no sudden jumps from tweeter to woofer / vice versa).
Since Jim and Charlie were last to listen to them - I'm curious to hear their thoughts on the revised crossover. They look good on paper - but the true test would come from listener feedback.
August 28th, 2021, 3:40 pm
Jim G wrote:Pelliott321 wrote:When I heard them in the spring David played them both with passive and active crossover. I preferred the passive being more musical, lees hifi.
... though the speakers with either arrangement did not disappear. Sound could always be heard coming from the speakers, even on live recordings (in an acoustic space).
August 28th, 2021, 3:45 pm
August 28th, 2021, 8:52 pm
DaveR wrote:Jim and Charlie are the only ones who have said anything remotely similar about the speakers not disappearing. In fact, quite the opposite. I invite anyone who's vaccinated to come and judge for themselves.
August 31st, 2021, 10:02 am